mistressofmuses (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mistressofmuses) wrote2022-01-08 09:38 pm
mistressofmuses) wrote2022-01-08 09:38 pm
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Today's big accomplishment was cleaning Broccoli Cheddar Bomb's habitat. It's been... very overdue, so I'm glad it's done! Hopefully he's glad, too.
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Challenge #4: Wishlist for fandom
Add me to the absolute chorus of people who miss low-key community spaces for discussion. Dreamwidth is way better suited to that than most other spaces (except maybe discord, but in my experience it tends to move too quickly for me to engage in MUCH discussion). I've found a nice number of friends on here that I talk to in comments on our respective journals, and there are also some pretty active writing communities where people comment back and forth, even if we only share fandom-y stuff in a broad sense, rather than specific fandoms themselves.
And well, Snowflake is one of the events that best fulfills that wish already!
In general (though also personally) I'd love fandom to foster a more feedback-oriented culture again. Sometimes all you want to do is passively enjoy some fic, and I get it. But when comments and kudos and such are the only "payment" a writer gets, it's nice to get that! Sure it's not owed, but it IS nice to feel like you aren't posting to the void.
No real wishlist for me or my stuff - I hate asking for things. :P
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Challenge #4: Wishlist for fandom
Add me to the absolute chorus of people who miss low-key community spaces for discussion. Dreamwidth is way better suited to that than most other spaces (except maybe discord, but in my experience it tends to move too quickly for me to engage in MUCH discussion). I've found a nice number of friends on here that I talk to in comments on our respective journals, and there are also some pretty active writing communities where people comment back and forth, even if we only share fandom-y stuff in a broad sense, rather than specific fandoms themselves.
And well, Snowflake is one of the events that best fulfills that wish already!
In general (though also personally) I'd love fandom to foster a more feedback-oriented culture again. Sometimes all you want to do is passively enjoy some fic, and I get it. But when comments and kudos and such are the only "payment" a writer gets, it's nice to get that! Sure it's not owed, but it IS nice to feel like you aren't posting to the void.
No real wishlist for me or my stuff - I hate asking for things. :P
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I feel like there should be a way to channel this common wish for more fan communities on DW into ... something. Like a general fandom comm? Maybe a few smaller ones? I don't know, but it would probably take at least a couple people to mod.
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Agreed! There are some great pan-fandom communities, but almost all of them have some other focus, like themed fic recs, or writing challenges, etc. Those are great, but discussion tends to stay on those topics rather than branching out into casual chat stuff. It seems like one big comm would be a better shot at getting the necessary membership and participation to be a thing... but a few smaller ones might give people more choice of "general vibe" and such.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'd be very good at modding, and I know it would need at least a few people to do so.
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For gaming, twitch has become key to community/guild building because it's a low key way to hang and vibe check before joining a group.
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Ah yeah, I do know several people who use twitch. (I haven't ever, but have at least passing familiarity with it as a thing. ^^; ) But having a way to get that vibe check on a group is HUGELY helpful.
(Like we've lamented with writing groups - sometimes the vibes and the dynamics of the group are just terrible, no matter how much you wish it could be good.)
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I spend too much time on twitch, but also it's a decent social outlet especially with the world the way it is.
I'd love to have a writing group. I've tried to start one a few times, but no luck. The ones I tried to join were, uh, not good vibes. Also, I don't want to tell rando wannabe novelists that I am working on fanfic projects.
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Like... you may have come to this club because you're interested in the theme, so you know you have something in common with the other people who showed up... but hanging out on the patio to just chat for a bit lets you find people you connect with better.
Anything that can act as a good social outlet is a good thing right now. I think one of our local DJs has been doing twitch streams on some of her usual club nights so that people can still at least partially participate from home.
Same here. I never actually joined the local NaNo group, but... my previous experiences haven't been great. Definite bad vibes, or just wildly steamrolled by one or two people, or not-so-subtle hate for fanworks or genre fiction or queer fic...
(This was way back in high school, but my "favorite" piece of "constructive criticism" that I ever got from a writing group was on a silly little rom-com short story about a teen trying to get his oblivious friend to realize he was asking him out. I'm sure it was not a great story, but the "concrit" I got on it was that I should stop copying Brokeback Mountain and come up with my own ideas. :| )
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That sucks. That isn't con-crit, that is a failure to understand things outside your interest.
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Right? It's pretty funny now - like... a recent-historical western tragedy and a contemporary high school rom-com are clearly identical because they... both feature gay characters? Lol. I will say that taught me that not all con-crit has value, though honestly at the time I couldn't brush it off quite as easily.
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There have been a couple projects to make leaving feedback easier for people who have trouble with it, but so far nothing's really taken off. As someone who writes rarepairs in small fandoms, I wish it would, lol.
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I remember seeing a few of those. I know AO3-comment-of-the-day on Tumblr has shared a few of the "here's a list of low-pressure, but appreciated things to say!" or "how to build a comment out of these columns" and such.
I do think there are some people who just feel like they don't know what to say in feedback, so don't say anything. But please, even just a "this was great!" or "I'm glad I found this fic" or something is great!
The smaller the fandom and the rarer the pairs, the worse it is, I'm sure!
(Also, the semi-new opinion/concern that it's "weird" to comment on or interact with an old fic.)
I definitely wish that one of those initiatives would take off in a more lasting way. It would be great if "show your appreciation by saying so!" could be more of a general norm!
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Where my mind goes with such an epic name:
**(Forewarning - this report contains gratuitous violence and blasted cheese, everywhere. Reader's discretion is advised.)
"BREAKING - Tragedy Strikes Local Panera Bread Soup Counter: Suburban Moms Left Scrambling to Choose Other Dinner Options For Their Starving Children After Lacrosse Practice
Just when the pandemic and its shortages couldn't get any worse for the Marauding Karens of Costco hoarding t.p. supplies for what seems like the fifth time this quarter already, tragedy strikes the local Panera Bread soup counter. At approximately 6:17pm MST last night, reports of molten, broccoli cheddar soup strewn about the local Panera Bread began flooding police scanners. First responders arriving on scene surveying the damage noted, 'It's just everywhere, not even the cookies are salvageable... I've never seen anything like this in my entire career... Who could do such a thing?!...' The damage was so extensive the local fire department opted to forcibly close the shop for the evening out of an abundance of caution, just before lacrosse practice was scheduled to conclude.
An investigation is pending, but rumor has it a disgruntled, prankster teenager working the counter let off an incendiary device (bomb) consisting of a 16oz. Diet Coke bottle and Mentos into a cooking pot of broccoli cheddar soup. When coworkers realized what they had done, it was already too late and the staff and customers were barely able to take cover before the molten soup was blasted throughout the establishment. No injuries have been reported beside the mental trauma of having to go to Noodles and Co. next door instead of Panera Bread as planned that night.
Stay tuned for further news coverage of this tragedy and be sure to check out our webpage for recipes and alternatives for broccoli cheddar soup while Panera Bread rebuilds."
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Buuuut... screw that; THIS is his new origin story! Lmao, he was in league with the disgruntled teenager all along! They were planning this! He hopped away from the wreckage, leaving destruction and despair behind him!
He feels no remorse.
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Try this ...
See my post on improving community in fandom.
>>In general (though also personally) I'd love fandom to foster a more feedback-oriented culture again.<<
It helps to let readers know with phrases like "Feedback is candy" or "Writer uses feedback to plan projects." With fanfic, feedback lets me know what's popular enough to be worth continuing and sometimes I get ideas to weave in. With original work, people can extend a series with comments, prompts, or donations. It can make a big difference. I have one character who went from having like 2 fans to being among my most popular. The prickly little jerk just grew on people.
These are written for crowdfunding but generalize well to fanfic:
http://penultimateproductions.weebly.com/how-to-support-your-favorite-author.html
http://penultimateproductions.weebly.com/how-to-make-constructive-comments.html
Re: Try this ...
(It feels like using DW is one of those things for some people - a lot of people say they miss LJ, and would use DW if it was active... but then never post here or participate in the communities that are active!)
While I'm not great at admin/modding stuff, I am definitely trying to be more participatory in communities this year, and I'm trying to keep the fact that I could *post to* a fair number of communities in mind. Having fallen out of the habit of member posts being a norm, it's hard for me to remember that I can do that! And should!
And of course, the "don't be a dick" rule really is a good one for everyone to keep in mind. I've watched frustratingly large numbers of fandom spaces devolve into miserable toxicity.
Also good points about commenting! Readers don't know if they don't know, so positive (not manipulative or guilting) reminders are a good idea.
(I know an author I really like has said things like "Welcome to chapter two of 'this was going to be a oneshot, but the commenters brought their A-game'" to let people know that she's continuing something based on reactions she'd gotten.)
Re: Try this ...
(It feels like using DW is one of those things for some people - a lot of people say they miss LJ, and would use DW if it was active... but then never post here or participate in the communities that are active!) <<
Exactly. And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who want things without working for them. I mean, I know it's supposed to be a wishlist, but the thing that bugs me the most about Snowflake is how many of its participants are super excited in January then immediately vanish afterwards. I can't count how many blogs are empty except for Snowflake and maybe 1-2 other posts. 0_o
>> While I'm not great at admin/modding stuff, <<
That's okay, there are many other options for participation. You could:
* post on your own blog
* make a recurrent post on a fannish topic
* do friending themes, questionnaires, or other such events
* comment on other people's blogs
* post or comment on communities.
>> I am definitely trying to be more participatory in communities this year,<<
Yay! That's appreciated.
>> and I'm trying to keep the fact that I could *post to* a fair number of communities in mind. Having fallen out of the habit of member posts being a norm, it's hard for me to remember that I can do that! And should! <<
You might pick one or two favorite communities and set a reminder to post in them, somewhere with a topic that you always have something to say about. There are rec comms where anyone can post, so you could either make a plan to rec once per theme there, or to rec your favorite new fanworks in some community.
>> And of course, the "don't be a dick" rule really is a good one for everyone to keep in mind. I've watched frustratingly large numbers of fandom spaces devolve into miserable toxicity.<<
Yep. That's why we need strong moderation tools, modeling, and people who won't put up with that shit. In my blog, I have someone wander through and try to start a flame maybe once a year or so. By the time I even notice it, usually one or more of my fans has already dumped a bucket of wet sand on it. We've gotten into some fractious discussions, but it's not a very flammable environment. Because we have made it that way.
>> Also good points about commenting! Readers don't know if they don't know, so positive (not manipulative or guilting) reminders are a good idea.<<
I put a line about it in the first and last posted chapters of stories; feel free to borrow this if you wish.
A note on feedback: While it's not necessary to comment on every post I make, remember that I don't know who reads/likes things if nobody says anything. Particularly on long stories, I've discovered that I get antsy if there's nothing but crickets chirping for several posts. So it helps to give me feedback at least once, even if it's just "I like this" or "This one doesn't grab me." First and last episodes are ideal if you rarely feel inspired to comment in the middle.
The Poetry Fishbowl is explicitly run on prompts, donations, and feedback. The whole reason I have series there is because people started asking for reappearances of favorite characters. I'd been envying writers who did longfic crowdfunding because I wasn't sure how to get that kind of repeat custom. Now I have series longer than books (I'm not kidding, Shiv's file is over 3000 pages, and that little sod started out with like 2 fans) and people who have dropped more on poetry than actual poetry book publishers have. A large part of what makes this work is that I'm willing to write any topic of mutual interest. You want two boys kissing? A hot babe in a wheelchair? A civilization of mostly neurovariant folks? Asexual leads? An apocalypse full of mostly brown women? I've done those, and I did them because fans asked and kept asking.
>> (I know an author I really like has said things like "Welcome to chapter two of 'this was going to be a oneshot, but the commenters brought their A-game'" to let people know that she's continuing something based on reactions she'd gotten.) <<
Well, that's what happened to Love Is For Children, my longest fanfic series. It was supposed to be a quick little thing. Fans went berserk for it. I wrote more. It still gets occasional installments because people prompt for it in the Poetry Fishbowl (fine, I can use fanwork as freebies) and Creative Jam.
Re: Try this ...
I have definitely been trying to keep up activity on DW, both by posting and making sure I comment on other people's posts. Unsurprisingly, that's led to better connections and friendships than passively reading and never posting/commenting ever has. ;)
Rec communities are a good idea for posting - with a bit of surfing through my bookmarks, I'm sure I could usually dig up something on-theme that I've enjoyed and would like to share.
Fostering a general community norm against bad behavior (but also having it ingrained in the formal rules, if applicable) is usually the most effective way to keep it from ever getting out of hand. It's great when stuff gets shut down before a mod even has to get involved!
That's a really good bit of verbage for shared works! I may start including something similar.
That is some really impressive word/page count for some of your characters/series! It's great that some of them have developed such an enthusiastic following. I think that is a really good point about why it's so successful - the ability and willingness to include such a range of inclusive identities and worldbuilding!
Re: Try this ...
If it was 1-2 people, it wouldn't bug me. Somewhere around 4-5 it got irritating, and after a dozen ... for fucksake people, you have enough for a whole community if you got together and just did the thing.
>> Snowflake is great, and I do love seeing the enthusiasm in January! But... very true how many people just... wander away afterwards. Like... if you want a sense of community, you have to BE IN THAT COMMUNITY, and if everyone who said they wished DW was more active was active on DW, DW could be pretty darn active, haha.<<
Nailed it.
>>I have definitely been trying to keep up activity on DW, both by posting and making sure I comment on other people's posts. Unsurprisingly, that's led to better connections and friendships than passively reading and never posting/commenting ever has. ;)
Go you!
I have connected with several interesting people this Snowflake season. I hope that at least some of them stick around.
>> Rec communities are a good idea for posting - with a bit of surfing through my bookmarks, I'm sure I could usually dig up something on-theme that I've enjoyed and would like to share.<<
That's a great idea.
>> Fostering a general community norm against bad behavior (but also having it ingrained in the formal rules, if applicable) is usually the most effective way to keep it from ever getting out of hand. It's great when stuff gets shut down before a mod even has to get involved! <<
Yeah. The moderation tools are useful, especially being able to friend-lock the comments to block spam, but it's the community that really matters.
>> That's a really good bit of verbage for shared works! I may start including something similar. <<
I'm happy I could inspire you.
>> That is some really impressive word/page count for some of your characters/series! It's great that some of them have developed such an enthusiastic following. I think that is a really good point about why it's so successful - the ability and willingness to include such a range of inclusive identities and worldbuilding! <<
Exactly. I like writing things out of the ordinary. So for readers who rarely if ever see themselves reflected in mainstream storylines, it's really nice to find someone who's willing to fill that gap. It's easy for one person to make a big difference just by persistently prompting and sponsoring poems in a given series. I have several series that were heavily developed by one or a few people, before other folks got on board.
Re: Try this ...
I hope some people stick around this year as well. :)
I do appreciate that DW offers good moderation tools, which can certainly help a lot. But community norms and culture are probably the best way to shut down obnoxious behavior before it ever takes hold.
That is definitely a tremendous draw! A chance for people to see themselves reflected in stories and worlds is a wonderful thing, and I love that crowdfunded projects like yours provide that so much more readily than mainstream publishing.
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Exactly -- if they bother.
>> I hope some people stick around this year as well. :)
Usually a few do.
>> I do appreciate that DW offers good moderation tools, which can certainly help a lot. But community norms and culture are probably the best way to shut down obnoxious behavior before it ever takes hold.<<
You need both. If everyone is obnoxious, the tools aren't much help. If most people are decent, but you have no way to shut out those who aren't, then it's hard to maintain a group with no boundaries.
>> That is definitely a tremendous draw! A chance for people to see themselves reflected in stories and worlds is a wonderful thing, <<
It's important to a lot of people, and more important to those who have few if any alternatives.
>> and I love that crowdfunded projects like yours provide that so much more readily than mainstream publishing. <<
I've done mainstream too. The only advantage it has, in theory, is a wider audience. Crowdfunding is faster, more accurate, better throughput, and for me more lucrative. I have individual fans with a poetry budget that outstrips most poetry publishers. I don't have to guess what people want to buy; they tell me. We're filling gaps that people want, but the mainstream doesn't care about. And we're making the world a better place, because people tell me that they're learning things from what I write.
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